Episode 3: Should You Leave Your Job? Lessons From Our Career Journeys For Discerning Job Transitions
(Or listen!)
Wondering if you should change your job?
With so much fluctuation happening in the job market, increasing options, the shake-up of COVID, and many more factors… it seems like everyone and their moms are getting new jobs.
Maybe you:
Feel stuck in a job that you feel frustrated about
Aren’t getting along with your boss or coworkers
Just feel bored or maybe some FOMO and want to “explore your options”
Honestly just wanna make more $ or get promoted more quickly
Are tempted to quiet quit (or are already doing so!)
The decision about whether or not to switch jobs can definitely be daunting and overwhelming… especially when everyone also has a biased opinion.
At the end of the day, we know we need God’s guidance and direction. But how?
We get this question a lot. So today we’re sharing our personal stories and insights from our own job transitions.
Join us for this conversation as we unpack:
How can we navigate job transitions God’s way?
Discerning whether or not to stay at a job or to leave - and when
Questions to help you process what God's saying to you about your situation
A practical exercise for you to apply this week
We hope that this episode can give you some helpful tips on how to view decisions around job transitions through God’s purposes and perspective, as well as thoughts to consider and questions to ask yourself (and God) as you process and discern your decision.
RECOMMENDED RESOURCES:
BOOK: Designing Your Life: How to Build a Well-Lived, Joyful Life by Bill Burnett & Dave Evans
(NOTE: This is not an explicitly faith-based book, but it’s aligned with biblical principles because Dave is a strong believer!)VIDEO: Grace's Story: Why & How to Pursue Your Passion (A Christian Googler's Job Search)
EPISODE #2: Why Your Job Description Isn't Your REAL Job Description (& HOW to Live Out Your Real One)
EPISODE #1: The #1 Most Important Thing In Life Is This.
Transcript
[0:00]
Today, we're diving into a really common question: “How do I know when it's the right time or whether or not I'm supposed to transition out of my job?” Let's get ready to unpack…
Welcome back to the podcast! We're so excited that you guys are here. And we hope that last week's conversation, if you haven't listened to it, we encourage you to go back because we just started talking and unpacking about this important topic about faith and work, which we love talking about. We could talk about it all day, every day.
But today, we are going into this specific topic around transitions. We feel like more and more - you know, we see this especially in our generation - people are left and right changing jobs.
I remember one season, I think it was like, last year or the year before, half of our small group all had new jobs at the same time. (That was wild. I felt FOMO because I still had the same job. Yeah. Like, oh shoot, should I change my job?)
So, yeah, I think there's just so many factors that play into it. You see so many other people changing jobs on LinkedIn and announcing new jobs, but also the uncertainty around the economy, the uncertainty due to just COVID also shook up a lot of people like, “Oh, shoot, nothing's for a certain. Should I even be doing what I'm doing?”
But also, I feel like a lot of people have this good desire and kind of similar to, again, last week's topic on faith and work, it all stems from this good place of wanting something more, wanting to do good.
And the same applies to work - more and more, our generation is more purpose-driven, more meaning-driven. And I think a lot of people, when they don't experience that in their work, they're like, “Oh, should I just try this thing? Maybe I'll try that thing,” and there's nothing wrong with trying things, but I think we want to kind of give some guidelines and thoughts around: How do we make sure we're not just doing it, not just transitioning according to the world's playbook and what the world says to do, but how do we do it according to God's lens and the way that he wants us to operate?
So we're going to share actually two personal stories from our lives, and Alex will go first.
[2:18]
Yeah, I feel like the word transition is the theme of my life. I feel like every few years it's like a transition not only in career, but just in general, but I'll share a little bit about my career and what I do for those of you who don't know me.
So, my role for mof my career has been customer-facing roles in software companies. So you might be familiar with the term “software as a service,” so I've been doing that, SaaS: software as a service. (Not to be confused with being sassy. Yes. Although sometimes I am a little sassy.)
But so SaaS: software has a service. So I've been doing that for my entire career: seven, eight years. Lost count. So at least client-facing roles in charge of revenues. So, earlier in my career, definitely tried a lot of things to see what I liked, what I didn't.
Like, I'm not one of those people who just knew exactly: “I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna go for it.” I actually had many experimental transitions. I think most people do, especially with more options now - more options, more technology, more opportunities. I think more and more people are trying many different things. (Nothing wrong with that. Yeah, nothing wrong with that.)
So, I'll share high-level my career, the transitions, and why I made those decisions. Some not so godly, some a little bit more godly.
So I started off my career in a startup, so you might be familiar with the role Customer Success Manager.
So that's the title I was at, and that was a smart tech company. Now it's a unicorn, definitely well over billions of dollars today. But when I joined, I was fresh out of college, was very eager, wanted to do a lot of things, was very ambitious.
But after about a year, I actually got bored. (The “b-word” again. Grace does not like to b-word (bored) because she never gets bored.) But after a year, I honestly asked myself: “What's my calling? Why did God put me here? I don't feel like my job is fulfilling my gift and my calling.”
And so for the next six, seven, eight months. I was literally thinking that every day. I was miserable.
And I was so confused about my career and my life, because I'm an idealist. My person Myers Briggs personality type is an INFJ, which apparently is an idealist. So I am all about trying to live the ideal life, and my career did not live up to my ideal expectations.
(And you have maximizing as a strength, too… which can be a curse. Yes, I do have maximizing as a strength, which can be a blessing and a curse. But we'll dive a little deeper in my personality some other time.)
So I was at this job, I did actually get promoted in the role, which was awesome, right? But I still felt bored, because I felt like it was routine. So I was contemplating whether to switch companies actually, because I felt like the product I was working with didn't resonate with my soul or I'm even passionate about it. There's the p-word: passion.
So I actually took a job working at a big company called LinkedIn. (Follow me on LinkedIn, Alex Tran, if you haven't already.) So I took a job at LinkedIn and honestly, I wasn't very… this was one of those not-so-godly decisions, so I was I think like 24, 23, 24, 25… I forget, but early 20s.
And I felt like this door was an open door that God presented… and, sure, God presents open doors. But if I were to look back, my motivations were actually more worldly driven. It was literally double what I was making at my last company and more benefits, all that glamor and all the food at LinkedIn. Amazing food.
But when I got there, I felt like I had a sense of pride that developed, and I wasn't liking what I was doing. So I was working in sales, and I was so miserable, did not like it.
And after about six or seven months, I actually got let go. And, to me, I took it as, number one: I'm not good at this, and two: it was almost like a curse… I would say of disobedience or just not not making very godly decisions. And it was like - not a punishment, but it was like a hard lesson learned. (Humbling you.) Yeah, it was definitely a humbling experience.
So after LinkedIn, did some soul-searching just thinking about, okay, what do I really want to do? I don't like sales, I don't want to do sales, so I'm gonna go back to this customer success thing, so that's where I went to my next company.
And that was actually, like, my dream company. Great culture, loved it. It's like number one on Glassdoor as of today. So really, really great culture. Really great CEO. I feel like I'm pitching it for them. (They should sponsor us.)
But this one, I thought was more of a divine career opportunity, because I actually got the job without applying for it. It was just through a lot of divine connections that introduced me to this opportunity, and I felt like the job itself was so daunting for- according to my experiences, because it was a very strategic role, very important role in the company, and I definitely did not have the experience to do it. But I felt like God gave me the grace to do it.
I was a little bit more mature in my faith at that time. So I felt like, “it's okay to step through this opportunity.” So that's where I moved from Southern California to the Bay Area, where we live now.
And, yeah, I worked at that company, but it wasn't all rainbows and sunshine. It was at first (definitely), but I would say the last year was really, really hard. Just… Oh gosh. I hope she doesn't listen to this podcast, but- (just don’t divulge details).
I won’t divulge details, but I just had a very difficult manager who didn't see eye to eye. I felt a bit micromanaged, and every day was me living in crippling fear. It was really bad, and Grace can even attest to this.
Yeah. It was affecting our marriage, like every day. Like, it’s weighing on him, it was weighing on me, because I'm now married to him, his burdens, I carry with him. But I really loved your approach to it, because you were like, “I want to be just faithful, like God brought me here. So I'm not going to just ditch or jump ship just because it's hard,” and you really actively sought how to love this person, how to honor this person, and even point them to Jesus even though you yourself were having such a hard time.
Yes, I had, I would say, estimated five managers, and the last one was a little tougher, and I for sure contemplated… “Okay, God, do you want me to stay? Do you want me to go? I don't really know, but I feel like he's calling me to stay to love this person to bless her, to really bless my enemies as Jesus commanded.”
So I actually stayed with this manager for a year. It was one of the most painful years of my career. Yeah, I think I had nightmares. My mental health was not doing very well.
Yeah, I won't divulge too much detail. There's a lot to get in there. But I felt like after a year, it was time to go.
Yeah, and I want to also put out there, we're not promoting- we don't want people to feel like if you're in a toxic work environment, that you need to stay. Like, sometimes it really, like for your sanity, for emotional, mental health, you really do need to change.
But I think the point Alex is making is he heard from God to stay, that he sensed that calling to be a light even though it was hard, you know. Jesus suffered his way to the cross, and not that you were going to the cross, but it was definitely a cross that you were carrying, and you felt like God wanted you to carry instead of just let go of.
So yeah, I would say even though it was hard, it was my richest ministry… where I got to meet and pray together with Christians, I got to be friends with executives who were Christians (who still are Christians), and it was such a beautiful, such a blessing (and you still keep in touch with those people, too).
Yeah. I still keep in touch with a few of those people. Which leads me… Because of my experience at Gainsight, that's how I got my next opportunity where I am now.
How I got this was also, I feel like, was divine. So actually, my former co-worker at Gainsight, the company before, he actually joined Udemy way before I did, and he referred me to the opportunity, because he was a good friend, and I felt like this was a divine connection and so… okay. Great. I just laid this opportunity before God and asked, “God, do you want me to pursue this?”
And I didn't hear a clear “yes do it” or “no,” but I felt like it was enough of a push for me to pursue this. So throughout the interview process I was just praying, “Okay, God, give me wisdom. Give me discernment. Give me a sense of conviction and peace that you want me to be here, not to make more money or to build on my resume, but is this glorifying to you? Is this job even enjoyable to begin with, and second, do I sense you sending me here in this new mission field?” (Right.)
So the answer was, yes, I got the job, and now I'm here. And it's actually been the best job and company that I've worked for! I love everyone there. My managers, the culture, my work.
I mean, it's not perfect, like any job, because we live in a fallen world, but it's… it's pretty good. (It’s REALLY good.) I would say it's the number one company in my career so far.
So, yeah, I feel like in this season in my career now, I try to be intentional about people, about loving people, I share the gospel pretty obviously on my LinkedIn if you follow it.
But definitely lots of God opportunity there, so…
[13:57]
The lessons I learned just throughout my career is, one: Inquire of the Lord, like David. Just inquire of the Lord, and it doesn't mean you'll get answers right away, but it's just the practice of asking God, like putting God before you in your decisions. Like, “Hey, do you want me to pursue this opportunity?”
And also be honest with yourself. Why are you pursuing this? I feel like, in our generation, as millennials, people jump all the time from job to job - like they take one job, they interview, they're there for like a month, and then they switch jobs. I don't know, I don't know the full story. I can never judge, but from the outside… it feels like, okay. There must be a little bit more to unpack here. (Right.)
I think the point is- again, the point is not like, “that's wrong, this is right.” It's like… just include God in your process, right? Because we're all humans. It is easy just to pick things because there's a shiny object (shiny object syndrome… that's a tongue twister.) It’s very real.
And so, instead of just chasing things like, “oh, that's a great opportunity to make money or to elevate my career, climb the corporate ladder, maybe that has better stock options, maybe that has a better retirement plan,” instead of just like jumping at those things for practical self-beneficial reasons, or even God-glorifying reasons- you know, today I was actually reading about Saul and how… It's a long story, but basically God told him to do something, and he didn't do it all the way. He actually saved some cattle and some king of this enemy army, and he said, “Oh, it's because I want to glorify God with it.” Even though God told him not to do that.
So I think sometimes we can even justify and hide behind this like false humility, false religion of: “I'm doing this for God, it’s gonna be better for God… but what is God REALLY telling you?
Like you have to be honest. That's what you said: to be honest with yourself, because just because on the outside it looks good or godly, it doesn't necessarily mean that's what God is telling you.
Yeah, reminds me of a specific career opportunity that I got, too, while working at Udemy, kind of like a side hustle almost, helping someone start a business, being almost like his right-hand person, that would give me a lot of executive experience.
I felt like, at that time: “Sure, try it out a little bit,” but over time, I felt like it wasn't the thing God wants me to focus on… at that time.
So yeah, there's no right or wrong answer. It's just asking: what is pleasing and honoring to the Lord?
And also treat jobs as relationships, too, like… Put yourself in the employer’s situation, like what would be honorable to God? [Many people] take a job, and then they switch really quickly, right?
It's kind of like dating someone, like speed dating. You're not really sure what you're looking for. Not really committed. You're not intentional about the process. So you're trying to find the “perfect person” but you don't know what it looks like. But it's very similar to the process of dating. When you include God in the picture, it totally changes how you date. Because you realize dating is for marriage, and God's view- why did God create marriage? To glorify him.
And I think, actually, we were talking about this earlier, very similar with work: People don't talk about this enough… When you're seeing work as a self-beneficial thing, just like if people see marriage as a self-beneficial thing for your own happiness, your own contentment, like of course, God wants you to thrive and be happy, but not that's not your ultimate goal.
Your ultimate goal and the purpose of that is to glorify God and point back to him, regardless of how it makes you feel, right?
So yeah, I think it’s the same with work. If we view work in the proper form to glorify God for his purposes, it makes it much less about us and way more about him.
Also I’d add that wherever God places you, have integrity and also be faithful, work with excellence. Even if It's hard, even if your peers or your manager mistreats you or you feel like things are unfair.
I think in first or second Peter, I need to look it up, but there's a verse that says to slaves, like honor your masters and that verse has convicted me and that season working for a boss that I didn't vibe with very well and it got me through that season.
I'll say another thing in terms of transitions is to have one or two really close people who know you well. And for me, I have a friend named Paul. (Shoutout to Paul!) And I would ask him, “hey, I'm thinking about this opportunity… From what you know about me, what do you think about this?”
And a good friend will not answer yes or no. But he'll ask questions like, oh, “Why? What makes you- Why do you want to pursue this?” Or, “I'll be honest and just say, based on your experience and our interactions and what we talk about, this job description does not align with what your passions. It's so random.”
He literally, I think he called me out one time, like, “This is a little random, Alex.” (Yeah. And I agreed. I was like, “Thank you, Paul.”)
Yeah. You need friends who tell the hard truth. Yeah, I agree. Although another next layer to that is: at the end of the day, God's voice trumps everything. So no matter what people say around you, you always have to- the top, most important filter, God's lens and God's voice because human wisdom can't replace divine wisdom. But yeah, that is very helpful and very important.
[19:55]
Thanks for sharing your story. So I'll share a little bit about mine as well. (Hers is SO epic.) I'll just stay at the front. I get this question SO much. So I think part of the reason we wanted to do this podcast episode was so I can partially just send this to people, cause people always ask me about, like: “Why did you leave? How did that happen? How did God speak to you?”
And it's a lot… but I'll try to keep it short here. Always feel free to reach out if you have more questions, like we can totally unpack offline, too.
But what I will say is: you will see in my story very similar lessons learned as Alex just shared, but also some other ones I'll mention, as well.
So for me, I won't get into like… my whole career journey. I'll just focus on two things. (It’s like, tell me about yourself. I know… it's like, I was born, my parents immigrated, you know…)
So in college, yeah, I did do a lot of- I think it's very common, and very expected and normal to try a lot of different things. When you're in college, you literally don't know what you don't know, right?
You don't know: Do you like this thing? Do you like that? I remember a career person at a networking event one time asked me, like, what kind of marketing are you looking for? Because I knew I was good at marketing. I just didn't know what I would want to pursue.
And I literally blanked out. I was like, oh, there's different kinds of marketing? And I had no idea what kind I wanted to do.
So obviously, you know how I learned, and I do encourage if this especially if you're younger, if you're still in college or recently graduated: This is the time to try things and explore and to learn about yourself. Don't just try things because you're like, oh maybe this is it, instead of having a scarcity, like a fear-based mentality, but more to try things to learn about yourself. It's data from your experiences, right?
Like: oh okay I'm good at this. Oh I'm not so good at this, or I like this, this drains me… a really good book about this is “Designing Your Life” by Dave Evans and Bill Burnett. They should pay me for how many times I mentioned that book to people.
Anyway, fast forward. So I heard from one of our former pastors, he once said in regards to the trajectory of your life: basically, you try a lot of things when you're younger, but as you grow older, you should be having the goal of getting more and more clear about: What is your specialty? What is the thing that God is focusing you on? And it might not be the same thing for the rest of your life, it probably won't. But it's important to be a lot more intentional and focused, based on the data points you’re gathering.
In the first few years or decade of trying things, use that data to hone in. And so, I think from doing a lot of internships, unpaid internships, volunteer work, and marketing, I had this very strong sense and feeling that I think God really does want me to go into marketing, but I'm not really sure.
So I remember like, end of college being really, like confused and also conflicted because I was like, “God, I just want to be used by you how you want me to. So I don't even want to box myself in and do marketing if this is not what you want me to do. I could be a journalist, I could be a teacher, like, whatever you want me to do.”
So I was like totally open, and I felt like God was actually pleased by that, because I remember one time in my prayer time he was saying and reminding me. It's not about when we come to God, saying, “God, do you want me to do A, B, or C?” It's more about: “God, fill in the blanks. Like: here are the blanks. I'm a blank canvas, like, I wanna be open to whatever you are telling me or showing me and not just give you these like boxed-in options, expecting you to bless one of them.”
So, yeah, I went on this whole journey, and I mean, fast forward… actually there's another YouTube video, you can look up, I think it's like Grace Chen Passion Talks about this entire testimony of how God brought me to Google, working in marketing without me ever applying. And it was a really transformative and amazing process of learning to really depend on God and have him just totally wreck me.
But long story short, he opened the door into Google, but I knew like, even before I got the job, it was very clear from my prayer times with God, that this was not for me to hold onto, like whether or not God blessed me with the job, it was just like Isaac with Abraham, like I would need to be willing and open to sacrifice it, to let it go if it came time to do that, you know?
And so I think sometimes we're like, oh my gosh, God gave me this, and you're so like caught up in it that you hold on to it too tightly. But I remember being very convicted. I'm like, “God if you make this happen, great. But if you don't, that's great, too. Regardless, it's not my identity. It's not my possession to hold onto. It's yours.”
And so fast forward four-ish years after, and I do sense a tug starting to happen. So this was in the middle of COVID 2020. (This one's a pivotal point.) It was a pivotal point.
So I remember, kind of similar to Alex, I was having struggles with my job, it wasn't because I didn't like it necessarily, it was just really stressful. It was taking a toll on my mental, emotional health, some culture things, but also ultimately I didn't want to jump ship just because it was uncomfortable.
I wanted to be faithful, and I really felt like God clearly led me here for a reason. I do feel like I can be a light to these people, but it is getting increasingly harder. I feel increasingly weighed down. And I don't know, God, like, I'm not gonna move, unless you really tell me to so.
And as I was in this process, it was interesting because then COVID happened, and our church actually - shoutout to our church - they had a initiative where they started, this like COVID relief platform that helped connect people who wanted to help (because a lot of people wanted to help, they just didn't know how) with people who needed help. And they were looking for some marketing help.
So, I was like, oh, well, I have experience in marketing. I'm stuck at home, might as well just help out. Fast forward, basically, the pastor who was leading that effort asked me pretty quickly into my volunteering, like, have you ever considered full-time ministry? And opened that conversation.
And it was crazy, because I remember my first reaction was I laughed so hard. I was like, haha, very funny. It's like the pandemic, the economy is going down, everyone's losing their jobs. Why would I consider that?
But Inside, I was like, oh, shoot. This might be God. Because before I went to Google, I actually did a marking ministry, like internship with my college fellowship, in Wisconsin. And I remember having that feeling that God was going to equip me through tech, through my experience in tech, to use for ministry full-time someday, I just didn't know when or how.
So anyway, I just processed and wrestled with this for probably like a few months. (Four months.) Yeah, Alex was in the process, too, and yeah, I asked a bunch of people what they thought, I was very torn about it, because I did feel like there is something about this that keeps tugging me… but at the same time, I have all these fears, I have these golden handcuffs. I would be cutting my salary by a lot. I wouldn't have these benefits and stuff. The Google perks. Goodbye free food, goodbye croissants from Levain (one of the cafes has really good croissants).
Anyway, yeah, there are a lot of, like, perks I felt like I was letting go of, but even more than, it unearthed some fears I had even generationally about, “oh, shoot, if I do this, what if I don't make enough money, would that set up my future kids up for failure? Cause I know my parents did all this for my college success, and bla, bla, bla…”
So it really forced me to truly realize: God is my security, not the money, not the security from a career or job, and I really need to trust if he truly is calling me to this thing, that means sacrificing this and trusting him, then I need to be willing to do it. I don't wanna live with regrets looking back being like, wow. I think I missed the boat on that one. I think God was calling me to this, and I didn't do it.
So… I did it. I remember feeling very… it felt very surreal when I left Google to work for a church.
But what was interesting was when I announced this to my Google colleagues, I got so many emails from people being like, “Oh my gosh, you're so brave. I wish I could do this the same thing.” Because they had different passions, or people wanted to work for non-profits, and I was like, “You should do it!”
But anyway, I don't know where those people are today, but it just gave me even more encouragement being like, wow, a lot of people want to do this, but it is harder to actually have the courage to step out.
Fast forward about two and a half years, and I kind of talked about this in the first episode of our podcast. But yeah, even though the work was so great, and I loved the culture. I loved what I got to do and the impact that got to have for God's Kingdom, again, I sort of was feeling… okay, I think God is telling me something is shifting, and he's leading me to a different place, and I didn't know what it was.
And this is why I mentioned earlier when Alex was sharing about his journey, how it's very easy for us to just disguise our motives if we're not honest with ourselves.
Like oh, yeah. Well, this is for God. This is good. But you know, even for me, when I looked at my life, I looked at what I was doing - it seemed very godly, it seemed all for God's Kingdom. Even a lot of people I asked about this were like, "oh yeah, the Kingdom impact is clear, blah, blah, and you have more security, it's more wise to have a backup plan."
But deep down… I knew. Whenever I talked to God, whenever I was just going about my day, God was just like, speaking to me. I knew there was something else that he was shifting me into.
And I even remember, I was like, A/B testing my life. I was like, okay, maybe the shift is just in my role. Maybe it's in how I'm working. Maybe it's the way I'm operating.
So I did a lot of adjustments, but despite all those adjustments, I still knew. It wasn't just that.
So yeah, that's how I felt like God was telling me to step out, even though I didn't have an exit strategy. My only exit strategy was to trust that he would show up and show me what was the next thing in the right timing. I just felt like he wanted me to go out without a plan to really trust him.
And thankfully, my husband really, really supported that and encouraged me to do the same. (It was scary. But hey. That's what husbands do.) Yeah, I'm so thankful for that because I think if it wasn't for Alex's encouragement and reassurance, I probably would have stayed paralyzed being confused and fearful probably even until today. I don't know.
But anyway I stepped out, and you know, fast forward. Now we're doing this podcast, we wouldn't otherwise be able to do this. We have experienced so many transformations and breakthroughs because of it, and we're so excited for what's to come.
[31:31]
But anyway, I hope that gives you a little glimpse into my journey. I think the biggest takeaway from me was just to really be honest with yourself, like even if it looks good on the outside, even if you have security, comfort, if you're doing things that look good for God, like, is it actually what God is telling you?
And that's why again, the number one MOST important thing is really your relationship with God. Because if you don't, you don't know, you can't tell what he's telling you, if you don't cultivate that “the sheep will know the shepherd's voice” type of knowing. So, yeah, that's a lot.
Well now you know a little bit about our stories and our careers… definitely not your typical "get promoted every year, be director or VP." It is not wrong to go that route either, right? Yeah, if God calls you to it and also make sure you guard your heart, as well.
Yeah. But I just hope, like… I just hope that this story and this journey- because what I've seen for other people is… it gives a different perspective, right? Like, I think most people chase the opportunity or the potential but they don't pursue the purpose.
We put our potential over God's purpose because we see, "oh, I can pursue this thing to maximize X, Y, Z." And I think at the end of the day, when you look at the Bible, God is always so pleased by people who walk by faith, not by sight… who are empowered by the Spirit and not their own strength.
So yeah, I'm really grateful that God's just woven that in my journey, and yours, as well, to show us that there's a different way of making these decisions.
Yeah, some more thoughts just on career transitions, knowing what to pursue, whether to stay or not.
I think what's most important is the danger of not being God-led or Spirit-led and just being tempted by shiny objects, right? Like Adam and Eve, right? They wanted to eat the fruit because they were deceived to have power and all that good stuff, and the fruit looked pleasing to the eye.
Yeah, the food looked pleasing to the eye. If you were to translate that to today, it would be: Oh nice, great company, fortune 500, fortune 100, great salary, great stock options, RSUs, all that good stuff. It's pleasing to the eye.
So really just ask God. Inquire of the Lord. “Hey, is this pleasing to you? Is this in line with your will?”
Sometimes it's a clear yes, sometimes it's a clear no, sometimes it's ambiguous, and that's where you use your discernment whether to pursue that opportunity or whether to stay where you are.
Also be honest with yourself, be honest whether you're pursuing something because you feel like… there's something called poverty mindset, where you feel like you know, you don’t have enough money, you're pursuing things because you just want, honestly, to have a more comfortable life.
I mean I was like that… I'm still like that, too. (Yeah. Or impress people, like oh, I work at so-and-so company or oh, I'm this director, whatever, you know.)
Yeah. You don't want to keep running this rat race of pleasing people making more money. Because even looking at my life. Now, I make a lot more money than when I first started. Not saying I'm rich or anything, but I think the most important thing is to pursue God, really love people, and know that wherever you are, it's about forming your character and being diligent where you are being faithful.
And it's not about your resume, your LinkedIn profile, or your reputation.
Yeah, and one of my mentors… I remember when I was wrestling with this, at the end of college, I called one of my disciplers and mentors, and I remember she told me: "Grace, there is no right answer. No matter what you do, God will bless and be with you if your motive is just to glorify him, to spread the gospel."
She asked me, "What is the most important thing that God wants you to do?" And I said, "Spread the gospel?" It's just like, yeah, the Great Commandment, Great Commission as we talked about before (in Episode 2), right?
So I think, again, so often we're caught up in these decisions. It seems so big and weighty, but in God's eyes, it's not about the job, it's not about the company, it's about your heart. It's about your character and your trust in him. And that's what he cares most about.
So, even in this journey, if you are going through that right now, if you're struggling like, should I change jobs? Should I pick this, pick that… I actually want to encourage you is to open up your vision and be like, "God, what are you trying to show me about my character? And my faith? Are there secret idols that you're trying to reveal to me, whether it's like money or security, or people's perception of my reputation?" And let him transform you in this transition process, right?
So yeah, I think everything Alex said, I totally agree. And one last thing, too, is I think it's always really helpful to remember God will position you in places for his Kingdom purposes.
So you see, like Queen Esther in the Bible is a classic example. Like God made a way for her to be in the palace and to have the favor of the king for his Kingdom purposes to save an entire people.
Oftentimes, we forget that we're on mission for God's purposes. So like, whatever you do, do for the glory of God, right?
Yeah, I feel like it's a huge topic that can bleed into: “How do you hear the voice of God?” Yeah. Which we don't have time for this podcast, maybe in a future episode.
[37:33]
Yeah. All right, we're gonna end with an action for the week, as we always want to do.
So if you are feeling any doubt about your job, maybe you're tempted to do quiet quitting as a lot of people are doing, we want to challenge you this week:
Ask God, honestly what he wants to say to you about it, and not just about "God, this job or that job"… be open. Be like, "God, fill in my blanks," not just A/B/C, which one to pick, but ask him to write on your canvas.
And you can actually, I think a really helpful way to process this is to journal down, just like, write down what you're sensing from God as you're reading the Bible.
What's standing out to you? What is he highlighting to you?
Also, we encourage you to bring this to one or two really close godly friends, as Alex said, and ask them for their thoughts, ask them: "What do you think? Does this make sense, or what's your perspective on it?" That's really helpful.
And then, three kind of sub-questions you can ask God is:
“God, what are you teaching me?”
“How are you molding my character?”
“And how do you want to use me?”
I think those questions can really open up our eyes to see: "Oh, okay, like this job situation… this, this conundrum I'm in, it's not just about a job, it's about my transformation."
So again:
“God, what do you want to say about this? What are you teaching me?”
“How are you molding my character?”
“How do you want to use me?”
And yeah, don't be in a hurry. Don't rush through this. You can be intentional about it throughout the week. Maybe ask one question per week more intentionally.
But we just hope that these questions help you process and dialogue with God about it. So that your heart posture is in the right position to glorify God.
So we'll end with this verse from Matthew 6:33. It says: "But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you."
And we just wanted to end with that, because I think a lot of the times our fears around picking the wrong job, or staying, or jumping to another job: It's driven by, "well, I need things. I need money." (It’s like fear.)
Yeah, it's fear-driven, anxiety-driven, insecurity-driven and it's… again, we are not saying we're perfect, we've definitely gone through this a lot ourselves. And I even remember when I stepped out of my previous role in ministry that was one thing I was like, “God how - like - how are we gonna make it in the Bay Area, with only one income and like all these expenses?”
But I remember God just reassuring me and reminding me SO much that HE is the provider, and I again don't want to be on my deathbed looking back, being like, “Oh my gosh. I never lived what God was telling me because I was fearful, because I wanted to control things for myself.”
So we really would just wanna encourage you: that God is faithful, that when you seek Him, when you seek living for his Kingdom and his righteousness, and just being a light, the light that HE has called you to be and already MADE you to be - he's actually IN you, EMPOWERING you to do that - then everything else literally is going to be provided for you, because God is there for you.
We'll definitely do some more unpacking in future episodes, but this is one of our favorite topics.
We would love to hear from you. What else do you wanna know about the intersection of faith and work?
Yeah. One quick thing, too - if you have any thoughts or questions about this, we would love to hear that. So let us know on our social media and also you can even leave a voice memo. We have a link in our description, you can leave a voicemail for us and we might even feature it on our show so… just want to put that out there.
Great. See you in the next episode!
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