Episode 15: “What Are You AVOIDING?”: Lessons On Spiritual Formation with Alan George
What if we told you: you might be slowly losing your soul… without you even knowing it?
Friends, we have something truly special for you today.
We're sitting down with one of the most authentic, down-to-earth, humble and wise people we know—Alan George, leadership and strategic coach and former Church Online Pastor of 10 years at Life.Church (the church that created that YouVersion Bible App)—to dive into his personal reflections and lessons from his spiritual formation journey.
Alan shares vulnerable struggles, testimonies, and lessons learned about how his upbringing and experiences led him to discover the importance of spiritual formation and taking care of your soul—which goes way beyond just leadership skills and habit formation.
We break down what spiritual formation is, why it matters, and how it has totally transformed Alan's life and his family.
Practically, we also talk about practices and mindset shifts that can help you cultivate a deep and authentic connection with Jesus and tend to your soul, even in the midst of life's busyness and distractions.
Trust is… this is a conversation filled with golden wisdom nuggets that you do NOT wanna miss.
TOPICS:
0:00 - Intro
1:57 - Alan's backstory & what led him into leadership coaching
5:54 - How being missional has expanded with the digital world
7:33 - What is spiritual formation & what led Alan towards it
10:54 - Examples of how spiritual formation has impacted Alan's life
15:00 - Redefining success
17:12 - Key lessons Alan's learned in his spiritual formation journey
22:03 - Overcoming resistance around building spiritual practices
26:36 - How spiritual practices have impacted Alan's relationship with God
34:05 - Practical tip for internal transformation
34:43 - Dealing with internal resistance when it comes to spending time with God, based on Alan's own struggles & powerful personal testimony
40:00 - What Alan would tell his younger self
ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Alan George previously served as a staff member at Life.Church. Life.Church is a multisite church that is also the founder of the YouVersion Bible App. Having moved on from that role, Alan now collaborates with leaders in both the church and corporate spheres, offering leadership coaching and strategic consulting services to help them achieve their goals and become who God created them to be. You can connect with him at www.alanvgeorge.com or on Instagram at @alanvgeorge.
FIND MORE RESOURCES IN THE EPISODE REFLECT & APPLY GUIDE
Transcript
Like, what is happening to me?
When you find yourself in a place like that… there's something wrong.
You guys are making me a mess here today. Man. This is audio-only, right? Yeah, right.
Welcome back, everyone, to the podcast! We're so excited you guys are here.
I've been looking forward to this particular episode even before this podcast became a thing. We were just reminiscing on how our special guest today, he was one of the few people, one of the first people whom I shared this idea with way back, I think it was sometime last year.
He's been through the whole process from the inception to the dreaming to the, okay, we're getting started, we're, you know, holding everything with an open hand, seeing how God will lead, and now he's actually on the podcast!
So we're so excited to have you here, Alan, and yeah, thanks for joining us!
Oh, thank you so much. I've been waiting for this day as well, and like you said, seeing the story unfold and now getting to be a part of receiving the emails, getting to watch the videos, hear the podcast. I love it. I love it. I'm so grateful, honored that I get to be here.
So, for context for people, Alan and I used to be more a lot of, like, a coaching-client relationship. He does leadership coaching, executive strategic coaching, for both church leaders and corporate leaders. And so we worked for quite a while together.
And in every conversation I had, I had such mind-blowing moments, and I would say Alan has been one of the most influential people in my journey these past two years because of these conversations we've been having, not just about leadership and ministry, but just life in general and how to lead out of a deep place with Jesus and walking with Jesus.
I was gonna introduce you, Alan, but I thought it'd be actually probably more interesting to have you kind of describe a bit of your backstory and what has led you to where you are now?
I don't even know what to say after that intro because I'm already like halfway to the point of crying. And if that’s how we're starting this, here we go. (The more authentic, the better.)
Let's see… I was, I'm originally from India, born and raised, and lived most of my life in the Middle East. I moved here to the U.S. in 2004 because I fell in love with a girl and I wanted to marry her, and I was like, let's go. This year we'll be married 19 years. We have three kids, and you'll see little Pepper. She's not little, but she actually acts like she's little. But we have Pepper here as well.
Both my wife and I, we were in corporate, but we were also involved in ministry, and it was in 2008 that I felt God just stirring in my heart, this question. He said, "Do you trust me enough to quit your job and come work for me?"
And here I was, living the American dream, getting ready to buy our first home. And my knee-jerk reaction was like, "Uh, no, God, because you don't pay that. Well, at least like, that's what I heard." I didn't want to give all that stuff. I said, "I'll still help, but you know." But we kept praying about it.
We knew this was what God asked us to do. And so we took a step of faith.
Long story short, started working at a church based here in Oklahoma City, which is where we still live, called Life.Church. And about six months after I joined, Meryl joined as well.
And so, on staff for 10 years. And then again felt stirring in my heart, saying, "Hey, do you trust me enough to quit your job again?"
And I was like, "Why are you doing this to me? Like, I'm comfortable. This is great. We're doing ministry."
And ended up taking a step of faith because we knew this was God.
Meryl's still on staff at Life Church, but that's when I stepped out. And that's kind of how you and I met, Grace, and got to then work with churches and leaders. And we're still on that journey. It's been an exciting ride.
That's a really great summary of the last, what, how old are you, like, 21? Yeah.
So, for people who aren't familiar with Life.Church, could you share a little bit about what was the work that you did at Life.Church?
Sure. Life.Church was established over 25 years ago by our senior pastor, who is still our lead pastor, Pastor Craig Groeschel. And some of the cool things that God did through our church, we're not the ones who started this, but God used the concept of multi-site, which is where one church in multiple locations. And so he preaches, our senior pastor preaches from one location, but it's broadcast to now, I think, 45 locations, as what we have.
Through this process over the years, the idea for a Bible App also came about because we saw that people weren't engaging with Scripture, and we thought, "How do we help get Scripture into people's hands?" And so the YouVersion Bible App was born.
This was around 2006, when the YouVersion Bible App happened. And then Church Online came out of it as well because the idea was, if we can reach people beyond our walls, what could we do? And so that's kind of what Church Online was all about. It was taking our services, putting it online, and building a global community around that.
And so I got to lead Church Online for about 10 years. I joined the team after about four or five years of its existence. And so that's what I did for the majority of my time there.
And so it's been cool to be a part of that story, part of the journey. And it's not done. God's continuing to use our church, and we're just honored that we get to be a part of it.
For those who don't know, Alan is like one of the, I would say, forerunners of digital ministry and what that looks like, especially through your influence through Life.Church, but also now consulting with so many different churches and organizations. And I love your tagline, Alan, for your online course that you have. Is it "Online as It Is in Heaven"?
Yeah. And that, that came from like, I mean, you know, I've talked about this, the whole concept of the Kingdom. And we don't just give our lives to Christ so that we can someday go to heaven. But like, he taught us to pray, "Let your will be done on earth as it is in heaven."
And many times when people think about online ministry, there's just a tendency to go, "Oh, no, that's not going to work. You know, relationships can't happen online and you can't grow online, and I'm not a digital native."
I just, for me, it was like, let's do anything we can to reach people who don't know Christ. And so when we think about online or digital and think like, "Oh, there's no way that can work," we're actually limiting God, just like his Word says, "Let your will be done on earth."
“On earth” also includes the Internet, and it also includes technology. And so that's kind of where that came from, "Online as It Is in Heaven."
That's so good. Yeah, whenever people have that argument of, you know, “relationships can't happen,” or, you know, “real life doesn't happen online,” I just look at me and Alex, and I'm like, we met online. We met in a Facebook group, unintentionally. And so, yeah, I mean, we have a lot of lifelong friends that we met online as well, and I think more and more as our world becomes more digitally integrated, it is such an important mission field for us to be present in and active in.
I want to transition into today's topic that we want to talk about, which is spiritual formation. And I know that, you know, from our conversations, we've had a lot of conversations and discussions around this.
But I was wondering if you could kind of break down, first of all, for anybody who is not familiar with spiritual formation, what is that in your lens? And where did this come about? How did you get into it?
You know, spiritual formation, that whole concept, that topic was new for me. It's still fairly recent. By no means am I an expert in it. I would say my background and my interest for many years was mainly around leadership. This thought of, if we want to see change happen, you hear quotes like "everything rises and falls on leadership."
And there's just all of this… energy around the word leadership and what it is and how do we become a better leader? How do we grow our communication? How do we build better teams? All of the above. I'm more of a learner. So I just automatically, if something catches my attention, I kind of dive all in.
But why was I in that space? I also realized just in my own life there were some disconnects between my life and when I looked at the life of Jesus, for example. I've always been wired more to be like a workaholic, and for a workaholic to be in ministry, it's just like the worst thing that can happen. Because when you're in corporate, you kind of look at workaholism as bad, “I shouldn't be doing this. This is bad. I'm trying to pursue my career and it's all about climbing the ladder” and all that.
But in ministry, you almost feel like “this is a holy thing.” “So what if I'm working extra hours? So what if I'm just doing everything I can, working 60, 80 hours? I'm doing it for the Kingdom,” and so it's easy to fall into that trap.
But then when you read Scripture, you read Jesus' words saying, "Come to me if you're burdened, and I will give you rest for your souls."
I just... Those two things, like the leadership culture that I was trying to live up to, and what I was teaching myself, and what I was consuming, all of that content was around being the first one in and the last one out, "I'm going to outwork you," you know, it's just all about “me, me, me,” "Here's what I can do."
And when I'm reading the Gospels, Jesus is saying, “It's not about you. It's about the Kingdom, and it's about the Father, and I want you to let go, and I want you to surrender.”
And those to me were very contradictory.
Even the concept of rest, because I thought, “man, rest means I'm lazy.” But rest actually means surrender. “I know I can't do this, but I know God can. I think I'm gonna let Him.”
So I was in the middle of wrestling with all of that when I read the book "Soul Keeping" by John Ortberg. A mutual friend introduced us, and I got the opportunity to talk to him. He was the one who actually opened my eyes to this whole concept of spiritual formation.
And what does that mean? Over the past three years, it has transformed a lot of areas in my life. And when I look back, I can see the journey God has been bringing me on. Because each of us has our own journey, and I can see how He has been layering teaching upon teaching upon teaching. So that's where it started and how I began diving into the concept of spiritual formation.
You mentioned that spiritual formation has transformed many areas of your life. Can you give us a glimpse into what it was like before and during the whole spiritual formation process?
I think a lot of... And I don't know if it's because of my personality type, so this may not be true for all of your listeners, but for me, I'm an ESTJ from a Myers-Briggs personality type. I'm an Enneagram 8, and if you know anything about 8s, we always have an enemy, and we're always charging up a hill.
So for me, willpower and just relying on my own strength, thinking no one's got my back, I'm going to do this, I've got to figure this out on my own. Willpower is what I relied on for a lot of my life. And this idea of surrender, of giving up willpower, it was challenging.
In my conversations with John and reading "Soul Keeping," and even John Mark Comer was very influential, both of these guys attribute a lot of their learning to Dallas Willard.
Transparent moment, I've tried to read Dallas Willard. It is so dense and deep, like it's like I'm still on one of his books after two years, and it's like, okay, Holy Spirit, help me. But I'm going through it, I'm trying. But to be honest, (I'm the same.) I think John Mark was the one who did the series at his church when he was at Bridgetown, and he simplified it for me in a way that made sense.
He said, "In order for us to reflect Jesus or be transformed into the image of Christ, we need to be with Him. Because when you're with Him, that's when you become like Him. And when you become like Him, that's when you do what He did. But you cannot do what He did if you don't become like Him. And you cannot become like Him unless you spend time with Him."
It was just very simple. All of a sudden, this complex spiritual formation idea that was out there became simple. So all I need to do is spend time with Jesus, and over time, I'll become like Him.
My wife and I have been married for 19 years, and in many ways, we are very similar today just because of our proximity and the amount of time we spend with each other.
And so, if I spend time with Jesus, I am going to become like Him. And if I become like Him, that's when I can do what He did.
Many times, I have been frustrated that I haven't been able to do the things that He did, no matter how much willpower I use. I realized that willpower alone does not transform me into the image of Christ.
What's interesting is in the leadership space, I had read a lot of books about habits and the power of habits and things like that. But for me, habits were always focused on things like, if you eat healthy, you stay healthy. It was all about productivity and leadership.
I never- I didn't translate it into spiritual formation, where I can make the excuse, "man, I just don't spend time in prayer."
Well, it starts by maybe spending one minute a day in prayer, and when you build that habit, then you become that person.
So, this concept of spiritual formation started becoming more simple in my mind.
And when I started realizing that, I thought, "Whoa, hold on. There's no way I can be an effective leader if my soul is not right with God."
And so, those two worlds of spiritual formation and leadership started connecting together.
I know, Alex, I'm going all over the place. So, okay, pause. But that's kind of where this whole journey was focused. It was mainly willpower, and then realizing that willpower alone can't do it. So, God, what are the habits that I need to bring about in my life which will help me spend time with Jesus? Because eventually, I want to become like Him so that I can do the things that He did.
Yeah, I think that struggle also resonates with many people. It's not just about using our lives for God, but also taking care of our own well-being. What does it mean to have a healthy soul? There are so many questions, and we were talking about this the other day, about how our world seems very focused on external results, even in ministry. What fruits are you producing through your leadership? What multiplication are you seeing? And while that can be great and productive, it can also be unhealthy if it stems from a place of striving, thinking that we need to work for God and forgetting to be with Him.
Even that statement of “success:” what does success look like in this season of my life? That word is tricky, because when we think of “success,” we often consider what others perceive about us. “What is their perception of me?” If you're a data person, “what metrics am I looking at that someone else would think is successful?”
It was John and his wife Nancy Ortberg who helped me rethink that and said, instead of asking, "What does success look like?" ask, "Am I being fruitful?"
That could be a better question, because when I think about being fruitful, it's not necessarily about scale, but rather about making an impact in someone's life. It narrows my focus down instead of constantly wondering what everyone else thinks about me. The words we use can shape how we think about our seasons.
Regarding that topic, there's so much to unpack, maybe for a different episode. I feel like my own journey parallels yours as you recount how God has led you. I'm grateful because I really felt like God knew to bring people like you into my life. You mentioned John Ortberg's influence on you, helping you understand these things. I feel like I've been getting that from you as well, our conversations about spiritual formation, taking care of our souls, and actually becoming more like Jesus by spending time with Him.
You know, they say that you become like the five closest friends you surround yourself with. Well, yeah, you also become like Jesus if you're constantly surrounding yourself with His presence. And the opposite is true, too.
If someone were to ask, what are some of the top lessons you've been learning in your journey of spiritual formation, what would those be?
That's a really good question. One thing that comes to mind is that often, when we start our faith in Christ or when we've been following Him for a while, it's easy to make progress and then mess up, feeling like we take two steps forward and eight steps back. It's a constant struggle of ups and downs.
I remember thinking about this, and I think I read it somewhere, although I have to say that anything worth repeating is probably from John Ortberg, Dallas Willard, or John Mark Comer.
So, just a disclaimer, because I might find myself constantly saying, "Oh, I think John said this, and I think John..." So, just to cover all the bases.
Think of it like a musician. If someone gave me a guitar for the first time and asked me to play an amazing classical piece, there's no way I could do it. But if I consistently practice every single day, hoping that I have some musical talent, I believe that over time, I will be able to play that musical piece. Practicing and training today will help me do what I cannot do today by my direct effort.
So, when we think about spiritual formation and spiritual disciplines or practices, we are training ourselves. We train so that one day we can do what we cannot do today by our own effort. That revelation has helped me understand that.
For example, if we want to be more generous, we don't automatically become generous one day. We have to train ourselves towards that goal. So, what are acts of generosity that we can consistently do that will shape us into the image of who we feel God has called us to be?
I believe this is what Paul was talking about in Romans 12 when he said we need to renew our minds according to the Word of God. Part of what he was saying is that we need to arrange our lives in a way that reflects Jesus. By doing so, we can do what He did. This understanding unlocked many areas for me, not just in leadership as we discussed earlier, but also as a husband, a father, and a friend.
And so, as we look at those areas, it's about trying to figure out the pathway to get there. I'm a logical person, so I think about where I want to be and what daily habits I could do to help me get there. Initially, I wanted to adopt multiple habits all at once, eager to go for it.
But then I realized that it's important to take it one day at a time. I keep this journal with me at my desk called the five-year journal. I had never been able to journal in my life until my pastor talked about it. It's basically a journal with five lines for each year, allowing you to put down the date and see what you wrote in previous years. I'm currently on my fifth year.
I remember when I started in January of the first year, I wrote in those five lines, hoping it would stick. And now, five years later, it's amazing to see that it did. There's a sense of accomplishment in filling those five lines every day.
In the past, I couldn't write long journals with three or four sheets like some people can. But I knew it was important for me to keep a memory of the things that God has done in our lives, things we would normally forget.
I'm so glad I did because on hard days, when I write in my journal, I sometimes peek at the previous or next day and reflect on what has been happening over the past couple of years on the same date.
Sometimes I read something I wrote and think, "Hey, God did this thing today. Isn't He incredible?" It's so good to experience those moments and they make the difficult days a little bit easier as I look back at the goodness of God. This is all through the power of habit and discipline.
So, if we feel like we're falling short, I encourage us not to give up. Let's identify a small practice or discipline that we can incorporate into our lives to help us become the people we want to be.
Alan, kudos to you for sticking with your five-year journal. That's a long time, and it's inspiring. I definitely want to get one for myself.
What I've observed and heard from many friends is that people generally have a hard time spending time with Jesus and building spiritual habits. Could you share your struggles in building these habits in the beginning and how you overcame the challenges?
Yeah, journaling was one of those habits I struggled with. Part of my challenge was pausing and praying at the end of the day. We did that as a family, but I realized I needed to do it for myself as well.
When we did it as a family, it was more about influencing my kids, and it was centered around them. They're young, currently 15, 13, and my youngest will turn nine this weekend as we're recording this podcast episode.
Our family prayer time used to be embarrassing because we were half asleep and tired. Unknowingly, we were training our kids to accept that kind of family prayer as okay. Of course, there are tough and busy days, and that's fine, but we weren't intentional about it. It was more like, "Okay, all three of you pray, and let's try to read a Bible verse." That was it.
It took some time for us to improve. In the past couple of years, we've made progress. Currently, we're going through a devotional with the kids, which is originally for adults, but we've adapted it for their age. It takes at least half an hour, and at first, we were tired. However, it helped when my wife and I partnered together.
Some days, I didn't feel like doing it, but she encouraged me, saying, "Babe, we have to do it. Come on, let's do it." And there were days when she was tired too. There were even moments when the kids would ask, "Daddy, are we going to read the rest of it today?" It's not perfect, but it's been a collective effort, and I can see the positive change happening in my kids' lives.
The big lesson I've learned is that if something isn't working the way we want it to, we shouldn't give up. In terms of my kids' relationship with Christ, I can't outsource it to anyone else, not even the church or the YouVersion Bible app. As a parent, it's my responsibility.
Likewise, if I'm not growing spiritually, I can't hold my church responsible. I have to take ownership. Regarding your struggle with prayer, think about one way you can create a habit around it.
Recently, what has helped me is going for a walk. I need to do a 30-minute walk every day, and instead of listening to a podcast or music, I leave my headphones at home and use that time to pray and talk to God. Those moments have been more intimate and powerful compared to kneeling by my bedside.
Of course, this might not be the solution for everyone. It's about trial and error, finding something that works and sticking with it.
That's such a good point. It reminds me of how even in a marriage, it's important to have novel experiences and create new memories together. Consistency in rhythms is crucial, but exploring new things, trying new foods, and asking new questions brings joy and freedom to the relationship.
Similarly, in our relationship with God, we often emphasize consistency and discipline, which are important. But there's also freedom to explore and try different things.
For example, you might find that worshiping on your walk is more life-giving than being in your room, or you might enjoy drawing pictures and journaling through art instead of bullet-point writing.
This advice was given to me by a coach when I shared that my relationship with God felt a little dry. She suggested trying different creative ways to engage with God, and it really worked.
So yeah, I wanted to ask you about your relationship with God and how it has changed over the past five years according to your bullet point journal.
When I shared the summary of my life, I mentioned that when God first asked us if we trusted Him to step out in faith and leave our job, it was really hard. I was nervous and uncertain about what would happen.
The second time He asked me to do it, I was still nervous, but I had 12 years of history with Him where I saw Him consistently show up. I knew without a doubt that He would not let me go or fail me. No matter what, I knew we would make it.
That didn't completely eliminate fear, and I wasn't skipping through the streets thinking it would be easy. It was still tough and gut-wrenching, but it was a different kind of gut-wrenching because I knew we would get through it.
I believe that sense of assurance came with time. You mentioned the word freedom, and I think people sometimes don't realize, just as I didn't, that spiritual disciplines can feel like the opposite of freedom. It can seem constraining, like, "Oh my gosh, I can't do this or that, I have to stick to a schedule."
But similar to learning an instrument, when you start, it may seem monotonous and boring, doing the same exercises repeatedly. However, as you improve, you gain the freedom to explore and go beyond scales, doing things you couldn't do before because you stayed consistent and disciplined.
In our relationship with Christ, it's not exactly like training for an instrument, but it is a relationship where we get to know Him, His heart, and His character. I personally believe that God wants us to step into a boldness in our relationship with Him because if we don't know Him, we can't effectively represent Him or speak on His behalf.
We're not claiming to be God, but if we are called to bring the reality of heaven to earth, imagine the depth of relationship we need with Him in order to do that.
I think that change comes over time. It comes from spending time with Him and cultivating a relationship with Him. I remember feeling frustrated with God because I felt like I couldn't hear His voice. I was asking, "God, why are You not speaking to me? What's going on?"
And in that moment, I sensed Him saying, "Open up your phone." It wasn't like a literal voice, but more like a thought. So, in the midst of my complaint, I opened my phone and went to the settings. I found the screen time section that shows how much time I spend on each app. It hit me that I was cluttering my mind with every voice imaginable.
I realized that the reason I couldn't hear God's voice was that I hadn't prioritized it above all the other voices in my life. It was a convicting moment for me. If we're not growing close to God or if we feel He is distant, it's not because He moved; it's because we haven't made the time to draw near to Him.
This speaks to many of us who are constantly on our phones and wonder why it's challenging to hear God. We need to prioritize Him.
It reminds me of our first episode on the podcast, where we discussed how many of us desire more of God but fail to truly prioritize Him. That makes all the difference.
So, for me personally, I think it's a lot about mindset—a flip of the switch needs to happen. You're not just saying, "Oh yeah, I know I should do this because this is what it looks like to be a good Christian," but actually, at a heart level.
Nothing is more important than your relationship with God. And if that's true, I think it's a daily choice of surrender and knowing, "Okay, yeah, there's my to-do list, there are these apps, there are text messages to check, but today I choose to show up for God and be with Him and die to those temptations that distract me, right?"
Even things like joy, if we find ourselves in a place where we're increasingly irritated and frustrated, living a life that's the opposite of joy, I think we have the power to turn that situation around by being intentional. Being intentional with joy could mean starting the day by thanking God for this day.
Maybe it sounds small, but for some of us, that might be the start of turning our attitudes around. We can go through the list of any of those things, saying, "Oh Lord, I want more joy in my life. I want more friendships." Meaningful relationships don't just happen by accident. We have to be intentional about them, which means being vulnerable and willing to let people in. But all of that takes intentionality, consistency, and hard work. If it was easy, everybody would be doing it. We've got to be intentional about it.
It's a daily battle for our souls, right? Every day, there is spiritual warfare for our attention, our time, our faith, and our foundation. And if we wake up without realizing that and just go about our day thoughtlessly, not really prioritizing God, it's so easy for the enemy's influences everywhere to distract us and draw us away from God.
I forgot if it was with you or maybe it's from a Dallas quote or one of the Johns, but I also remember learning that verse from the Bible about what profit is there for a man to gain the whole world but lose his soul. Oh, I think it was from “Soul Keeping” actually. That verse wasn't to non-believers like we often think. It's actually directed to believers, saying, "What does it matter if your ministry grows or you look so religious, but your soul is lost?"
I think that's so key, and I would encourage anybody who's listening and wondering, "Where do I even start? I want this kind of close relationship with God." “Soul Keeping” is a great resource, but also just asking God to help you mold your heart and priorities to really center Him at the top of your priorities.
If someone's looking for something more practical, maybe it's taking Romans 12:2, "Be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind." Maybe it's taking that verse every morning for the next two weeks, just reading it and going, "God, help me be transformed by this. Just reading Your Word this morning, help me be transformed."
Let that be the starting prayer for your day for the next two weeks, and see what happens. I genuinely believe that there's power in the Word of God, and transformation can happen as we spend time in His Word.
I have a provocative question. So, for a lot of our listeners, we live in a very competing society with our phones. I'm sure my phone is exactly like yours, filled with a lot of apps and time spent on them. But what would you say to someone who doesn't believe in spending time with God, who chooses to do work or other things on their task lists?
I'm reminded of my own experience. I originally came from India, and not to stereotype all Asian cultures, but at least in our home, education was a big deal, very important. If you don't study well, you'll never make anything out of your life. It was like that. And I never really studied that well, and my relationship with my parents grew tense.
You're probably wondering, "Where is this story going?" I'll get to the point.
I remember that my relationship with my parents began to be filled with tension. I viewed how they viewed me in the same way as I thought maybe that's how God viewed me. And as a young kid, I was like, "I don't need anybody, I can figure this out on my own. I can make this happen." I made a lot of bad decisions, but on the outside, if you were to look at my life, it seemed successful. So, I ended up dropping out of high school and just making a total mess of my life.
But through ways that I'm not proud of, I started making a lot of money, and from the outside, we looked really successful.
But that led me to a place where, when I would come home at night after hanging out with friends or going to parties, for me personally, I just knew that it felt empty. And I don't know if there's someone listening who's thinking, "I don't need God, I can do this on my own." Maybe you're not feeling empty, so maybe this doesn't speak to you. But I know I felt empty.
I had the cars, I had all that stuff, and it just wasn't worth anything. It led me to a place where I started thinking about taking my own life. And I've got the scars on my arms to prove it because I tried, and it didn't work.
I remember thinking to myself, "I can't live like this, but I'm now nervous to even die."
I just felt like I was stuck. And it was in that moment where I didn't know what to do, and I just cried out to God, and He heard my prayer.
And I don't know what you're going through, but I know in my life, just hearing in my heart His word saying, "You're My son and I love you," changed my life.
So, if there's someone listening and they feel like, "I don't need God, I'm fine where I'm at," if that's the case, it's hard for me to believe that that's actually true because sometimes you put up a facade to make everyone else think you're okay. But inside, we're not. I think asking yourself the true, real question: “Am I really good inside? What's at the core of who I am?”
And part of it is, as you said, we're so busy and we're running a million miles an hour that we don't take the time to slow down and ask those tough questions. Part of it is that we're almost self-medicating with busyness. “If I can stay busy, then I can ignore those questions that I know I'll have to deal with in the silence.”
I remember, and this wasn’t pre-getting to know Christ, this was post-getting to know Christ, I was so addicted to content—YouTube, anything I could listen to. I remember even when I would stop at a red light, I would turn on YouTube and just watch like five seconds of a video. I thought, "Can I not sit still for five seconds? What is happening to me?"
When you find yourself in a place like that, something is wrong. If we are not able to get along with ourselves and just sit in silence for a few minutes, there's something seriously wrong.
We can pretend like, "Oh no, you know, it's just that I'm bored."
But ask yourself the question: “What questions am I avoiding? What do I sense inside?”
And I'll tell you what my friend told me. When I hit rock bottom, it was a friend who said to me, "Alan, why don't you give Jesus a chance?"
It was on a park bench. I remember, we had an ocean where I grew up, and it was a bench right by the ocean. I still remember, it was late at night, and I just looked up because I thought that's where God was—up.
And I said, "Okay, since He's bothering me, I'm just gonna say, 'God, if You really care about me, then I want to hear from You. I don't want to hear from anyone else.'"
And I believe I heard His voice in my heart that night.
So, I challenge you. I would say, ask Him. He's not a god made out of wood or stone or marble. He's a living God who speaks. And if you call out to Him, He will answer. That's what the Bible says.
Thanks, Alan, for sharing that. Wow, that was so heartfelt. If you were to go back and talk with little Alan, what would you say?
When I think back to my childhood, I think I was yearning for a role model, someone who would see a future in my life. Looking back, a lot of what surrounded me was, "Oh, you'll never amount to anything. You'll never make it." It was a lot of that.
Mind you, I grew up in a good home, but culturally, my parents were never encouraged. Nobody ever taught my parents- They were never taught how to raise kids or have a healthy marriage. They needed to make a living, so they left their home country and went to a different country to make a way for their families and kids. They were honestly doing the best they could
But as a young boy, a son, I knew I needed more. I wish there was somebody around who could just give me a word of encouragement or hope.
So, I think that's why I'm really passionate about encouraging people because sometimes you never know what one word of encouragement could do in someone's life. I know how it impacted mine. I shouldn't be alive today.
I still remember when I got my job at Life Church and updated all the titles on social media, I would get messages from my old schoolmates like, "Alan, is this really you? Are you a pastor?" After a while, I was like, "Oh gosh, yes, I am. I'm a pastor." I still have buddies who are like, "Dude, I can't believe you're a pastor." Bro, it's been a while now. Just get over it.
So, if I could go back, I would look at that kid and say, "Man, there's more in you, and it's not because you're awesome. It's because the God that lives in you is awesome." I would try to encourage him.
Thank you very much for being here today, Alan.
You guys are making me a mess here today. Man. This is audio-only, right? Yeah, right.
Well, you encourage so many people. Grace, after her sessions with you, always radiates, and she's always told me that you've made such a big difference in her life when she was working in ministry and even beyond that. Your influence touches so many people indirectly. I just wanted to say that.
I think all our listeners can tell, but one of the best things about you, Alan, one of my personal favorite things, is how genuine, authentic, and heartfelt you are. You're just so raw. You don't sugarcoat things or craft things in a way that's not real. That is such a strength, such a gift. Really appreciate you, Alan, for taking the time to come on here and just pour out your heart. And sorry to make you cry. It was the Holy Spirit.
My dad was a preacher, and when he would preach, he would cry. My dad was an ex-Air Force big guy, like, "What are you doing? You're embarrassing yourself. You're embarrassing everyone."
I think this is payback. He's in heaven now, but this is payback for me. I can't say a word without just the waterworks.
For years, I would pretend it's allergies. Yeah, right, allergies all the time.
So, if anyone wants to connect with you, Alan, what's the best way they can do that?
Social media is probably the best way. Alan V, the initial "V" as in victory, George (@alanvgeorge). I have a website as well, alanvgeorge.com. That's probably the easiest.
We'll link everything in the description. Thank you again, Alan. This really ministered to us.
We're glad because it's just to receive, but it's also so important to continue reminding ourselves and centering ourselves on what is actually important in life—our relationship with God, spending time with Him, becoming more like Him, and not just doing things for Him.
Because if you do all the things in the world but you don't do them connected to Him, as Jesus says, to abide in Him, to be connected to Him like the vine, then it's empty. We just hope this really challenges you.
And just like Alan said, continue daily reading His Word and meditating on Scripture, knowing that God is slowly transforming you over time. So, if you don't see results right away, that's normal. It's a lifelong journey, and that's the point—to walk with God, not to get instant results right away.
Thank you all for joining us, and we hope this helped you.
Thank you.
If you liked our podcast, we wanna ask you to help more people learn how to grow closer to God and experience the fullness he has for them by taking just 30 seconds right now to rate and review this podcast or like and subscribe on YouTube. It's a small action, but it makes a big difference so we can continue serving you with resources like this!
We'd love to hear from you about your reflections and questions for us to unpack in the future. We invite you to share this episode, tag us on social media, and follow us for more encouragement and helpful tools for living fully the way God designed you to.
We pray that God fills you with his love, his joy, his peace, and his wisdom as you continue growing in your daily walk with him. We're so grateful for you and we can't wait to see you again next week!